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1.1.1-Pilferingapples
Brick!club Book 1: Fantine Ch.1: Monsieur Myriel or, I Hope We’re all Ready to Talk About the Revolution In Which Victor Hugo Takes Two Pages to Give a Man’s Life Story. Really, Hugo gets a lot of criticism about his elaborate prose, and like pretty much every author of his day he can run on— but here in the very first chapter he sketches out the Bishop’s life in its entirety AND includes a lot of detail AND touches, briefly, on the actual French Revolution. You know, the era LM is not actually about. Anyone who thinks Hugo just doesn’t know HOW to get to the point may not be paying attention; if he rambles, it’s certainly on purpose, because look, we’ve already traversed the Revolutionary Apocalypse and it’s not even Chapter 2. The odd translation differences begin already— My Fahnestock calls the young Bishop Monsieur Myriel, the Denny calls him Monseigneur. Anyone know why, or what connotations might attach to the slightly different spellings? Despite other minor changes in phrasing, both versions include my favorite description in this chapter, of Mademoiselle Baptistine’s body as “a pretext for a soul to remain on Earth”. I’m not sure why that pleases me so much— if it makes her seem more powerful than her physical form, or is just so evocative of her frailty and personal strength? But I love that phrase. Tomorrow:Monsieu Myriel Becomes Monseigneur Bienvenue, or The Bishop Is Better Than Everyone! NOTE TO ALL: I will NOT be responding to/reblogging every post from here on in, only the ones where I have something to add or think someone else can embellish well. But don’t let me stop you from commenting! I’ll still honestly probably hit most of the posts, anyway, and if I don’t have a comment another Bricker may! Commentary Yemite My understanding of Monsieur vs. Monseigneur is that Monseigneur is a title given to those of a certain rank. Since M. Myriel is not yet bishop, I believe it would not yet be appropriate for him to be called Monseigneur when relating events prior to 1806? The original French calls him “Monsieur” in the title and “M. Myriel” or “M. Charles Myriel” or some variation there upon. The Hapgood translation uses M. throughout as well as in the title. Notquitelostnotquitefound So if Napoleon had had other shit to do that day and hadn’t met Myriel & made him Bishop of Digne, Valjean might never have turned his life around! Pilferingapples (reply to Notquitelostnotquitefound) Ha! Except maybe not so hah? A lot of LM seems to depend on random fortunate/unfortunate chance. Am I daft, or is Hugo unusually prone to call attention to that randomness? To me it enforced the idea that so many of the people knocked down to the level of les miserables were there by mischance rather than by moral failing, a very important concept in the book, and still not uncontroversial. So while I’ve seen more than one reviewer comment on the amazing coincidence-driven plot as a weakness, I see it as sort of the point? Littlejehan (reply to Pilf's reply) I think there are a few too many coincidental occurances that led to massive plot/character advancements later on to assume they are anything but the point. Hugo definitely draws attention to the lower classes and their misfortunes in this story, and the fact that bad luck is usually what drives them towards poverty, it kinda makes sense he would lead towards betterment with the same kind of chance? Pilferingapples (reply to Littlejehan's reply) Hurrah! It’s not just me who thinks so! And given how very often the idea of external circumstances as a justified, chosen fate is used to discriminate against people (I’ll just say “in the book” but only because real life is hard to examine in chapters) I think it is something that needs to be said and allowed for. I also get why it bothers some reviewers— the whole thing about only fiction needing to make sense— but I feel that not only do the coincidences emphasize that very important point, a lot of them are the sort of things that in real life only look like coincidence in hindsight. I’m sure there will be time to talk about that later… Littlejehan (reply to Pilf's reply) Haha, yea don’t spoil it for me :P First go round here! It also goes pretty far towards examining the whole idea of, you know, if circumstances were different, would you be any better/worse? If you had been down on your luck, are you positive you wouldn’t have eventually gone the same way? If you went from nothing to having all this money, can you say you would have helped others and not just yourself? It goes a long way towards proving that being lower class doesn’t mean being less of a person or worse of a person, just like higher class didn’t necessarily mean being better or more of a person. Gascon-en-exile Whew, quite a linguistic work-out. I’ve not read in French extensively in some time, though I do find it a little funny when Hugo’s original is more straightforward than one of the official English translations. Regarding “Monsieur” vs. “Monseigneur,” the latter was used as a title for some French royalty, but today it’s really only used as a clerical honorific, especially for higher-ranking clergy like bishops. I’ll be talking about the distinction a little more in the next chapter since it’s important enough to be its title. My French edition calls him M. Myriel but later monseigneur (not capitalized) Bienvenu, which is one part of his absurdly long name but also means “welcome.” I want to save my discussion of Myriel’s character for later chapters, because here I’m just so focused on how Faulknerian this introduction is. The line “Vrai ou faux, ce qu’on dit les hommes tient souvent autant de place dans leur vie et souvent dans leur destinée que ce qu’ils font" ("True or false, what is said of men often holds as much place in their lives and in their destinies as what they do.") screams some sort of proto-modernist subjectivity of perspective, and sure enough a good bit of this chapter is made up of rumors and ambiguity surrounding the bishop’s past life. The community he serves has a voice and a tangible presence, even if it isn’t all that accurate much of the time. And what a way to hammer in the fact that this massive text is at heart a story of spirituality and spiritual redemption than by opening it with such a pious figure. He’s flawed (or so people say, anyway), and his life of worldly pleasure before his conversion to the ascetic life echoes the lives of St. Augustine and assorted other well-known saints. He may be less interesting to many people than a priest like Frollo from Notre Dame de Paris, but it’s refreshing sometimes to see a clergyman who’s neither unrealistically perfect nor so flawed that he gets himself thrown off a cathedral for it. Pilferingapples (reply to Gascon) I am so very VERY happy you’re on board the reread, Gascon. Because of your…religious expertise. And translation experience. Yes. That is the reason. And the Bishop is fascinating! I suppose I shouldn’t be shocked that some people think he’s bland, but…well, that’s material for another post. Good point about the dominance of community gossip as a life-shaper here. This is Fantine’s Book, and her life is so horribly shaped by gossip and the opinion of others, the harmless community rumors here take on an awfully foreboding aspect. Of course they’re only harmless because of the Bishop’s station… Treblemirinlens (reply to Pilf's reply) Glad to see I’m not the only one who finds the Bishop interesting! (I knew I couldn’t be… but just a few days ago I was crying over how much of his story was cut from the abridged version a friend of mine is reading. I then proceeded to cry over how much of everything else was cut too.) "Vrai ou faux, ce qu’on dit des hommes tient souvent autant de place dans leur vie et souvent dans leur destinée que ce qu’ils font" / "Be it true or false, what is said about men often has as much influence upon their lives, and especially upon their destinies, as what they do" is my favorite line from this chapter, what a phrase to plunge into Fantine’s book on! Smokefall (reply to Pilf's reply ^Awesome commentary. Also… if this is an important thematic undercurrent of Vol I, is Hugo being disingenuous when he says: “Although it in no manner concerns, even in the remotest degree, what we have to relate, it may not be useless, were it only for the sake of exactness in all things, to notice here the reports and gossip which had arisen on his account…” Or is he signalling that nothing is actually irrelevant? The latter, I rather suspect. It DOES concern what he has to relate, if not in a direct, cause-and-effect way - and I like the thought that Hugo is offering, for those who choose to pick up on it, a hint that any future seemingly unrelated-to-events digressions into detail and backstory on his part are anything but irrelevant. Laissezferre Are we allowed to mention relevant events far far far into the book? Because Isn’t it fascinating how early on we find Valjean-Bishop parallels? Although it’s more expounded on in further chapters, we already see the town becoming a little hostile to the Bishop, just as the people of M. sur M. were when Valjean first arrived. Either Hugo wanted to establish the parallel or was simply trying to say that it was human nature to doubt things too good to be true. What happened to Valjean and the Bishop wasn’t a special case, and would most likely happen to any newcomers (I mean, it happened to Fantine). Thingonmyback I can’t add much here, only that the gutenberg version still has him down as the bishop of D——. you can imagine how amusing this was three months ago. also thank you holyfiremolotov because I wondered why my grandma calls one of the clergymen here monsignor Noli but I never asked. Kcrabb88 Having only read the Brick once before, quickly (relatively), and within the last year, I still seemed to have forgotten how mysterious Bishop Myriel’s past is, and now I find myself fascinated by what drove him to become a priest in the first place. Clearly what I assume is the tragic loss of his wife had a huge impact on the decision, and I am continuously struck by Hugo’s passage, “Was he, in the midst of one of the reveries or emotions which then consumed his life, suddenly attacked by one of those mysterious and terrible blows which sometimes overwhelm, by smiting to the heart, the man whom public disasters could not shake, by aiming at life or fortune.” I don’t really know, there’s just something about this passage that strikes me, and I almost feel as if Hugo is talking about the idea of destiny or fate here? And then I start thinking “Wow, if Myriel hadn’t been ‘struck’ like this, a lot of things wouldn’t have happened in this novel; Valjean’s life might not have been changed, and then everything Valjean did wouldn’t have happened…just a real domino effect, and I don’t think I realized before just how well this small first chapter sets up the narrative for the rest of the story. I’m not sure if this makes any sense, but this is fun. The English major in me is reveling in literary analysis. :) Jdanielatllas just barely read the chapter in time for it to still be considered Monday! the “this is irrelevant BUT HEY LET’S TALK ABOUT IT ANYWAY” sections have already started, good lord Although I’m starting to suspect that maybe irrelevant sections aren’t as irrelevant as they seem to be? But man I wanna hear more about Mademoiselle Baptistine and Madame Magloire. YES LADIES PLS AND THANK (Is there a reason M. Myriel and Mlle. Baptistine have different last names? Or are they not last names? I DON’T KNOW THESE THINGS) Pilferingapples (reply to Jdanielatllas) Isn’t Madame Magloire great? I love her relationship with the Bishop— a servant, but clearly a free employee and friend, not a slave. I don’t know about the last names, and I never thought to inquire! A church name, maybe? Surely someone knows? Caramarthenfan (reply to Pilf's reply) Pretty sure Baptistine is a first name—probably Baptistine Myriel, I’d guess. Pilferingapples (reply to Caramarthen's reply) Oh, that makes sense for the setting— the sister known by her first name, the brother by the last? Thanks! Doeskin-pantaloons (reply to Pilf's reply) It might be a thing based on gender? Teamsansa the Monsieur/Monseigneur difference could be because ‘Monseigneur’, if I remember right, is a position within the catholic church (so Myriel’s profession, I suppose). why one translator would specifically choose to use the religious title though, I don’t know. “Bishop Myriel” is so much easier.